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	<title>Jonti.org &#187; debate</title>
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		<title>Live-Blogging the US Presidential Debate</title>
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		<comments>http://jonti.org/uncategorized/live-blogging-the-us-presidential-debate#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 01:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jonti</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[McCain]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[debate]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonti.org/?p=131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[10:45 PM &#8212; I&#8217;ll end by noting that I have always liked McCain. For this point in our history, however, I think Obama is the better choice for president. I do think that we have two good choices this year, though. I wish McCain had run a more positive campaign and I wish he had [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>10:45 PM</strong> &#8212; I&#8217;ll end by noting that I have always liked McCain. For this point in our history, however, I think Obama is the better choice for president. I do think that we have two good choices this year, though. I wish McCain had run a more positive campaign and I wish he had not chosen Sarah Palin as his running mate, but I still think he would make a decent president. What I really wish, of course, is that he had defeated Bush in the 2000 primary. Obama succeeding president McCain would be a much better world than the one we have.</p>
<p><strong>10:39 PM</strong> &#8212; I would call this debate a draw in debating terms. In terms of how the American people will respond, I think it is a clear win for Obama because he escaped unscathed and is well ahead in the polls. I think Obama responded very well to the Ayers and ACORN accusations and he sounded like a moderate on abortion. He kept his composure, he seemed to know a lot of policy details, he was courteous, prepared, eloquent, presidential. McCain didn&#8217;t embarrass himself, but I didn&#8217;t quite buy his claim of hurt feelings over John Lewis&#8217;s remarks, so he didn&#8217;t always come off as sincere to me. McCain sometimes seemed like the smaller man, although I may be influenced here by my strong support for Obama.</p>
<p><strong>10:30 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain says &#8220;good job, good job&#8221; to Obama as they shake hands at the end. The candidates and their wives look good up on stage. American democracy in action! What we saw tonight was two heavy-weights slugging it out, and I am proud to be an American right now.</p>
<p><strong>10:27 PM</strong> &#8212; Did McCain just forget Obama&#8217;s name at the beginning of his closing statement?</p>
<p><strong>10:25 PM</strong> &#8212; Does McCain think that Palin&#8217;s child has autism? Trig Palin has Down Syndrome&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>10:23 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama is taller and better looking. It just struck me anew.</p>
<p><strong>10:17 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain points out that &#8220;the health of the mother&#8221; has been stretched to include anything at all. Nice catch. I missed that in Obama&#8217;s answer that I admired so much (originally I had &#8220;life of the mother&#8221; &#8212; I guess I heard what I wanted to hear). Seems like I may have been bamboozled a bit by Obama&#8217;s smooth talk there.</p>
<p><strong>10:15 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama: &#8220;Here are the facts&#8230;. There was already a law on the books that required providing life-saving treatment&#8230; I am completely supportive of a ban on late term abortions as long as there is an exception for the health of the mother.&#8221; He really answered that one well, I think. A really good answer.</p>
<p><strong>10:13 PM</strong> &#8212; Definitely a better debate than the last one, at least in terms of entertainment. Still boring, though.</p>
<p><strong>10:08 PM</strong> &#8212; Schieffer brings up Roe v. Wade and the Supreme Court. Obama says he believes Roe was rightly decided. Obama says it is an issue that good people can disagree on. McCain says he has no litmus test for supreme court justices, but states that supporting Roe is obviously disqualifying.</p>
<p><strong>10:05 PM</strong> &#8212; A long back and forth on the mind-numbing details of the alternative health care plans. McCain says the average cost of health insurance is $5,800 a year. Obama just said the average cost of health insurance is $12,000 a year. Who is right? Who knows.</p>
<p><strong>10:03 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama is explaining McCain&#8217;s health care plan, and it sounds like he understands it.</p>
<p><strong>10:00 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain brings up Joe the plumber. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p><strong>9:58 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama claims he will allow the average person to buy the same health insurance that US Senators get and no one will be excluded based on pre-existing conditions. Wow. Too good to be true.</p>
<p><strong>9:53 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama distinguishes between the Colombian and the Peruvian free trade agreements. Policy wonkery at its best.</p>
<p><strong>9:51 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama is talking about energy, the auto industry, and trade. I&#8217;m bored, which is probably good. I don&#8217;t want to be not bored during this final debate.</p>
<p><strong>9:48 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear power plants right away. This is a great idea and I&#8217;m all for it. This is the one area where I clearly like McCain more than Obama. I think Obama is too scared of the anti-nuclear wing of his party.</p>
<div id="attachment_297" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/ronnie44052/2989632992/"><img class="size-medium wp-image-297" title="joe_plumber1" src="http://jonti.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/joe_plumber1-300x225.jpg" alt="Joe The Plumber" width="300" height="225" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Joe The Plumber</p></div>
<p><strong>9:45 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama says he thinks that Palin&#8217;s work with special needs children is commendable. What work? I am not sure what she has done other than have a special needs baby recently.</p>
<p><strong>9:43 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain: &#8220;Sarah Palin is a role model to women.&#8221; He calls her a reformer. I roll my eyes.</p>
<p><strong>9:40 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain is still pushing Ayers and ACORN and claims his campaign is about getting the economy back on tracks. Obama chuckles in disbelief. Obama flatly denies that he launched his political career in Ayers&#8217; living room, but doesn&#8217;t get a chance to elaborate. Just as well. Better for Obama to get back to talking about issues.</p>
<p><strong>9:37 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama is responding to the Ayers and ACORN accusations. It is clear that he has no substantive association with Ayers and ACORN. He has done a decent job in defending himself against McCain, I think.</p>
<p><strong>9:35 PM</strong> &#8212; Wow. McCain just brought up Ayers and ACORN. Said ACORN is pulling off the biggest voter fraud in history.</p>
<p><strong>9:33 PM</strong> &#8212; This debate seems a little livelier than the last one. I like the back and forth a bit. Obama needs to watch out, though. He shouldn&#8217;t get dragged into this bickering about who has been running the more negative campaign and who has the weirder fringe supporters at rallies. He is better off focusing on more presidential issues.</p>
<p><strong>9:32 PM</strong> &#8212; I don&#8217;t know who Joe the plumber is and I don&#8217;t understand his economic situation well enough for these comments about him to make any sense to me. I don&#8217;t want to hear anything more about Joe the plumber.</p>
<p><strong>9:30 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain attacks Obama for not repudiating the remarks made by John Lewis. Lewis is a prominent black congressman who has compared McCain to segregationist George Wallace. Obama to McCain: &#8220;100% of your ads have been negative.&#8221; I think I was falling for McCain&#8217;s spin for a minute there. There is absolutely no doubt that McCain has been running the more negative campaign. I didn&#8217;t know what to think when I heard him attack Obama for running negative attack ads.</p>
<p><strong>9:26 PM</strong> &#8212; Schieffer: &#8220;Will you say it to each other&#8217;s face?&#8221; &#8212; in regard to attack ads.</p>
<p><strong>9:25 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama: &#8220;Even Fox News disputes it&#8221; &#8212; in regard to the accusation that he wants to raise taxes on people who make $42,000 a year. He gets a chuckle from the audience. I tend to believe Obama on this. I expect that it is only through ridiculous contortions that McCain can support that claim.</p>
<p><strong>9:21 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain: &#8220;I am not president Bush. If you wanted to run against president Bush, you should have run four years ago.&#8221; A nice jab!</p>
<p><strong>9:20 PM</strong> &#8212; Schieffer wants specifics on how they are going to cut back spending in the face of record budget deficits. Obama wants to eliminate $15 billion in subsidies to health insurance companies. Sounds good to me, but who knows what the real detailed truth is. McCain wants to get rid of subsidies for ethanol. Also mentions getting rid of corruption and mentions that stupid planetarium projector again that Obama supposedly voted for.</p>
<p><strong>9:17 PM</strong> &#8212; Obama is attempting to be a super-boring policy wonk, I think. Not a bad strategy when you are way ahead in the polls and the country is in a financial crisis.</p>
<p><strong>9:12 PM</strong> &#8212; McCain brings up a plumber, Joe, who is &#8220;trying to realize the American dream&#8221; but can&#8217;t because of Obama&#8217;s proposed tax increases. Obama agrees that he and McCain differ on tax policy &#8212; they disagree on who will get tax cuts. Obama says Joe the plumber needed a middle-class tax cut five years ago (?). My take: basically they are each making claims and I don&#8217;t know who to believe.</p>
<p><a href="http://jonti.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dsc_7487.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-132" title="dsc_7487" src="http://jonti.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dsc_7487-300x199.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="199" /></a></p>
<p><strong>9:00 PM</strong> &#8212; I&#8217;m here at my desk, iMac in front of me, beer at hand, the debate streaming live on the CNN website. Go Obama!</p>
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		<title>Live-blogging the debate</title>
		<link>http://jonti.org/politics/live-blogging-the-debate</link>
		<comments>http://jonti.org/politics/live-blogging-the-debate#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jonti</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[debate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[McCain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Obama]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonti.org/?p=3</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[11:04 &#8212; Well, I have just checked Hugh Hewitt, who is a republican cheerleader, and even he basically calls it a tie.  All of his stuff is spin, though, so you have to see through it.  Had he thought McCain had scored any real points there would be an immense amount of crowing from him. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>11:04</strong> &#8212; Well, I have just checked <a title="Hugh Hewitt -- McCain's lapdog" href="http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/d8244a39-cc5b-4036-a3c3-716ddb8f4638" target="_blank">Hugh Hewitt, who is a republican cheerleader</a>, and even he basically calls it a tie.  All of his stuff is spin, though, so you have to see through it.  Had he thought McCain had scored any real points there would be an immense amount of crowing from him.</p>
<p><strong>10:56</strong> &#8212; <a title="Michelle Malkin's debate reax" href="http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/07/liveblogging-the-town-hall-debate-me-me-me/" target="_blank">Michelle Malkin does not claim that McCain won</a>, and she is a right-winger, so maybe it was a boost for Obama.  Also, she is disappointed that McCain wants to keep housing unaffordable for responsible people. Thank god someone else agrees with me on this.</p>
<p><strong>10:52</strong> &#8212; <a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/nashville-debate-liveblog-3.html" target="_blank">FiveThirtyEight.com</a> also calls it a clear win for Obama.  I just figured it was my bias at work when I liked Obama&#8217;s answers&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>10:40</strong> &#8212; Well, I have just checked Andrew Sullivan.  He thinks that this debate was <a title="Andrew Sullivan's reaction" href="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/live-blogging-n.html" target="_blank">&#8220;a mauling&#8221; by Obama and &#8220;electorally fatal&#8221; for McCain</a>.  Wow.  I thought Obama did well, but Sully is euphoric.  Maybe it came off differently on TV.</p>
<p><strong>10:35</strong> &#8212; That&#8217;s it. Probably a draw on the whole.  I liked Obama a little better, of course.  The reason I began supporting him for president back in 2006 was that I liked his thoughtful and intelligent speaking style, which seemed to be evident here.  I was pleased with Obama&#8217;s performance.  McCain made no gaffes and seemed like a reasonable person.  I don&#8217;t think anything about the election will change because of this debate.  Still looks like advantage Obama for the presidency.</p>
<p><strong>10:32</strong> &#8212; Question is &#8220;what don&#8217;t you know, and how will you learn it?&#8221;  Obama is weaving around a bit, then returns to his family roots and the American dream.  Did not really answer the question (which is a good question I think).  Obama is basically repeating stump speech talking points here.  McCain: &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what is going to happen here at home and abroad&#8230;&#8221;  ??? &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what the unexpected will be.&#8221;  McCain is not answering the question very well either, but says &#8220;I believe in this country.&#8221;  Both whiffed on this last one, I think.</p>
<p><strong>10:27</strong> &#8212; I like McCain&#8217;s response on whether he would consult the UN before responding to an Iranian attack on Israel.  I certainly think that if Iran tries to annihilate Israel, they should expect an immediate and forceful military response from the US.  Obama also says it is unacceptable for Iran to get the bomb and does not want to give the UN veto power over the US.  He does not want to ignore the UN and diplomacy in general.  I judge them equal on this question.</p>
<p><strong>10:25</strong> &#8212; The pre-debate talk was that the townhall format would favor McCain.  So far this has felt like a normal debate and Obama has sounded as comfortable and at ease as McCain has.</p>
<p><strong>10:21</strong> &#8212; I am listening on the radio, so I can&#8217;t comment on their body language.  I wonder if this is a better way to focus on what they are actually saying?</p>
<p><strong>10:15</strong> &#8212; Obama is following up: he should have just said that he didn&#8217;t say he would &#8220;invade&#8221; Pakistan and left it at that.  By talking more he diluted his point.  Incidentally, it is a flat out lie for McCain to claim that Obama wants to &#8220;invade&#8221; Pakistan.</p>
<p><strong>10:12</strong> &#8212; Obama repeats again that he is willing to go into Pakistan if he will be able to take Osama bin Laden out.  McCain says Obama is talking big and it is turning public opinion against us.  I believe that if anyone&#8217;s opinion of America goes down because they hear Obama say he will get Osama bin Laden, then that is a person whose opinion of America is not going to be positive under any circumstances &#8212; certainly not under a McCain administration.</p>
<p><strong>10:06</strong> &#8212; McCain says &#8220;Obama will bring our troops home in defeat and I will bring them home in victory and honor&#8221; (or something like that).  To me, that just doesn&#8217;t sound right.  I personally believe that the opinion of the world toward America if Obama is elected would make it more likely that our troops would come home in victory. Also, how does McCain define victory?</p>
<p><strong>10:00</strong> &#8212; McCain: &#8220;America is the greatest force for good in the history of the world.&#8221;  Seems like a pretty grand statement, but it stokes my patriotism.</p>
<p><strong>9:58</strong> &#8212; Obama points out that McCain wants to deregulate the health care industry.  If that was meant to scare me, it worked.</p>
<p><strong>9:56</strong> &#8212; Obama says health care should be a right.  McCain just said it was a responsibility.  Obama really wants to explain his health care plan and I get the sense that he knows this stuff cold.  Obama is doing more finger-pointing at McCain, which sounds small to me.  Obama: &#8220;government should crack down on insurance companies that are cheating their customers.&#8221;  I like this!</p>
<p><strong>9:52</strong> &#8212; Question about health care.  This is a question I care about.  Probably my top issue.  Obama says that average people will be able to buy the same kind of insurance that he and McCain get and that no one will be excluded for pre-existing conditions.  Sounds good to me!  (Too good to be true, actually).</p>
<div id="attachment_315" class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/davidberkowitz/1441107480/"><img class="size-medium wp-image-315" title="brokaw" src="http://jonti.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/brokaw-300x225.jpg" alt="Tom Brokaw moderated, but not at The Cooper Union" width="300" height="225" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Tom Brokaw moderated, but not at The Cooper Union</p></div>
<p><strong>9:50</strong> &#8212; McCain says &#8220;I know you go weary of this back and forth&#8230;&#8221; and then he goes right back into the back and forth on who voted for what bill and so forth. I rolled my eyes.  He mentions off shore drilling, which I think is a drop in the ocean.</p>
<p><strong>9:46</strong> &#8212; Obama: &#8220;I favor nuclear power as one component of the energy mix.&#8221;  I like this.</p>
<p><strong>9:40</strong> &#8212; I&#8217;m getting a little sick of Obama and McCain accusing each other of having bad tax plans and repeating the same points over and over again.</p>
<p><strong>9:37</strong> &#8212; McCain says he doesn&#8217;t want to raise taxes on anyone.  To me this sounds like he doesn&#8217;t want to raise taxes on the very wealthy, like Obama does.  I like Obama&#8217;s ideas here better.</p>
<p><strong>9:34</strong> &#8212; Obama says he wants the American government to set an example by not running up a big debt.  He also says he wants to raise taxes on the very rich.</p>
<p><strong>9:33</strong> &#8212; Obama wants to double the size of the peace corp!</p>
<p><strong>9:32</strong> &#8212; So far this debate seems pretty tame.  Both candidates sound okay.  Obama seems a bit more on point to me, but I am a decided Obama supporter.</p>
<p><strong>9:28</strong> &#8212; email question:  what sacrifices are you going to ask the American people to make?  McCain says that some government programs will have to go.  He mentions Obama&#8217;s overhead projector again.  It seems like he is determined to drive that projector point home.  Obama starts by recalling Sept. 11th.  He then reminds us that Bush asked us to go out and shop.  He claims that Americans want a different kind of leadership than that.  Obama says he is going to ask Americans to conserve energy.</p>
<p><strong>9:23</strong> &#8212; Brokaw asks the candidates to rank their priorities. Healthcare, social security, and entitlement reform.  McCain says he can work on all three at once.  Obama says energy is his top priority.  Wants to be free of mideast oil in 10 years.  I am personally skeptical he can do this.  Obama then attacks McCain on giving tax cuts to big oil companies.</p>
<p><strong>9:18</strong> &#8212; Teresa asks &#8220;how can we trust you guys when both parties got us into this crisis.&#8221;  Obama says &#8220;I understand your cynicism.&#8221;  Obama points out that there was a surplus when Bush came into office.   McCain: &#8220;I have been a consistent reformer&#8221;.  Says Obama voted for a $3 million projector for a planetarium in Chicago.</p>
<p><strong>9:17</strong> &#8212; McCain again mentions that he wants the government to buy up bad loans.  Sheesh.  This sounds like a terrible idea to me.  The last thing we want to do is prop up wildly over-valued home prices.</p>
<p><strong>9:11</strong> &#8212; Oliver asks about how the bailout package is going to help people who are hurting.  McCain says he prefers the term &#8220;rescue&#8221;, not &#8220;bailout&#8221;.  Obama accuses McCain of being a deregulator.</p>
<p><strong>9:08</strong> &#8212; Brokaw: who will you appoint as treasury secretary?  McCain obviously does not have a name in mind.  Says he wants someone that Americans can identify with.  Finally names Meg Whitman.  Obama mentions Warren Buffett (who is 78).</p>
<p><strong>9:05</strong> &#8212; The first question is about the economy.  Obama is speaking fluently.  Seems like a lot of nice ideas.  Fix healthcare, fix energy, think about the middle class, etc.  McCain: I have a plan to fix this problem &#8212; it has to do with energy independence. (???!)  It is a bad thing that home values are decling.  (not for me!).  Wants treasury to buy bad home loans and let people stay in their homes.  He wants to stabilize home values.  (I would like home values to plummet, thank you).</p>
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